Times New Brody

Neville's conversion to the mainstream is now complete... :-)


15 Nov 2006 — 11:07am
General Discussions

What is a bespoke font? By the context I am guessing it means proprietary.

Wow, the press release lies:

"The Times is the only newspaper to create and use bespoke fonts, all other UK newspapers purchase ready-to-use fonts."

Hello, Guardian?

This is a bit surprising. Wasn't Times Classic done pretty recently? What does Times Modern look like? Who actually made the new font? I mean the body face. I have a hunch that only the headline font has been replaced.

BTW, "The Times is the only newspaper to create and use bespoke fonts, all other UK newspapers purchase ready-to-use fonts" is of course codswallop.


>What is a bespoke font?
You're right and not alone, though I didn't realise it wasn't a common term.



Bloody hell who do these wankers think they are??! Stupid pr bullshit telling lies and getting it all arse ovr tit. The font is probably all squarish and crud like all the face magazine fonts that he did. They didnt even think about the guardian stuff which good as gold.


I thought the Guardian redesign was rubbish at the time but I've gotten used to it. I felt the same way about the Times when they turned into a tabloid but that didn't affect me much since that's my dad's paper not mine, and my Mum is a Daily Mail reader through and through, I could just die of embarrassment! I saw the Times today and it was the same as it's been. The new design certainly is subtle!

Scans, photos, or PDFs, please! Before & after would be smashing.


It's almost 22:00 so it's too late to buy a paper now and I'm off to bed soon anyway. Maybe tomorrow?

Not good enough. You'll just have to fly to some British
colony "downriver" from you so it's still morning and
get me a copy, dammit. ;-)


"changes ...which will take effect from Monday November 20th"

But we still need a Before, and Newseum.org
doesn't (currently) have a PDF for The Times.


Dear William,

Thanks for pointing out what a fool I am! Perhaps the emperor will have some new clothes after all.

Everyone **** up nigella so don't worry about it!! Have you got any pics of the new font? is it the ducks nuts or should it be chucked in the dunny?


The new font will be appearing monday 20th november. Direct any criticism my way: I designed it, and the new masthead.


Bloody good show mate! why did the thing not say your name? you must be a bit pissed about that. Is it good? are you happy with what you have done given the history of the times?


It did: "Twenty-three year old Prowse has created the new Times Modern headline font for the newspaper."

I'm not seeking any glory, and the truth always outs anyway. It also erroneously claimed that it is the only paper with a bespoke font, which is obviously ridiculous. I've done my best and I'm very much looking forward to all criticism, positive and positive.

Hi Luke, it's true press releases stretch the truth, but we'll assume that the bit about you designing the font is accurate :-) Anyway, thanks for joining the thread, that should ensure at least considered feedback come Monday.

Cheers, Si

Luke, great of you to jump in. Always nice to
hear from the person who actually did the work... :-)

Crediting: yes, it's in there, but definitely... inconspicuous. Reminds of the time House Industries pretty much hid John Butler's name from the announcement of their OT releases, and the time Emigre did the same with Adam Twardoch (which is especially ironic in light of their epic font use crediting crusades).

BTW, can we get some good scans of the current The Times, before it's too late?


Crediting: It's a branding thing. The key brands are Brody (much higher brand-recognition than "Research Studios" - sorry that's just a dull name) and The Times (more brand-recognition than News Corp) - so having said that it's very nice to see the actual people responsible mentioned in the PR.


>1) Design Team
The Times: Ben Preston, David Driver, Mike Prowse , Chris Davalle, Kathleen Wyatt Research Studios: Neville Brody, Jon Hill, Luke Prowse

Is that your dad? ;-)

But don't you think the crediting was better in The Guardian's case?
Especially since -at least according to what Christian Schwartz has
told me- Paul Barnes actually did deserve equal, or even first, credit.


He is not my dad, no. He's probably the only other non-family Prowse I've ever met, as it happens!

The only Prowse I'm familar with is David Prowse... http://www.darthvader-starwars.com/ who's most famous line is of course "Luke, I'm your father" ;-)

Not his line in the final film, his west country accent would have reduced the threat to comedy, apparently it still hurts.

Luuke, Oi'm your faathaa :)


Back on topic...




I like this bit...

"We have cut our own type, and engraved the lion and the unicorn. It would have been simpler and cheaper to buy new computer type off the shelf. But that is not Times style. We lead from the front, in the continual quest to spread the word as fast and as clearly as possible."

...glad they're not putting on too much pressure ;-)

"...for the Times, they are a changin'"

Congrats Luke! Looking forward to seeing it.


>“…for the Times, they are a changin’”

That headline was popular in the summer as news spread regarding MS Word's decsion to replace Times New Roman with Luc's Calibri. The world of type is a revolving door, isn't it.

So does Bob Dylan design type for Microsoft now? :-)


Sorry Chris, you're blowin' in the wind.

in your brand new leapord skin pillbox hat :-P


Today's online edition has the masthead and an article

I see Luke gets a nod at the banner. Glad to see he is not forgotten and gets a well positioned mention.


You can also Ask Neville Questions

Anyone have scans or photos of today's paper?

Nevermind, found some at the reliable Newsdesigner.com.

Luke - My reaction after seeing just a couple onscreen samples is that the headline font is a nice clean redraw of Times Classic. Well done. But the new face doesn't work nearly as well for the nameplate, where the wedge serifs are far too facile in those very large all-caps. Can you tell us about the decision to drop the subtle curves in the brackets there?

The spacing on those headlines as shown on Newsdesigner.com looks very weird to me. Is this an artifact of the process of getting them up on the web?

Wot, no mention of Gunnlaugur Briem?


Stephen --

The masthead went through many, many variations. The original type inspiration derived from an old mid-50's berthold wolpe masthead with strong, triangular serifs that I pushed very hard for. It was felt too 'masculine', and the lack of brackets caused much consternation. We tried everything from the delicate curve to the bracketless wedge, and in true committee style, it ended in middle-ground, and with the serifs reduced in weight. The masthead is based on the headline font, but is significantly different in detailing.

So it is only the heading face that has changed. I think that's good news, because the existing one is great, and it's not nice seeing a body face replaced that often. That "after 221 years" bit is just more spin of course. I did enjoy Ellis's elaboration on the coat of arms though. Plus it's nice to see mention of logography - the idea only failed because the compositor's union sabotaged it. With logography Latin might have become something richer, since it's an idea that naturally lends itself to ligation.

Coming to the design itself, I actually rather like the masthead. It has a nice newsy edge to it. On the other hand I confess to being a sucker for the wedge serif! As for the headline face itself, I'd really like to see a PDF. Luke, tell them to submit to newseum.org! From the onscreen renditions it looks maybe a bit too "emotional", with the high contrast and cupped serifs - but I guess that's what a newspaper needs to be these days. BTW, it also seems to have a certain Dutch flavor, which is both good and bad I guess.

> I see Luke gets a nod at the banner.

And a slightly better mention in this new article.


The name Times Modern seems familiar:


Times New Modern? Thymes Modern? :-)

Thanks for finding this Simon. "We lead from the front, in the continual quest to spread the word as fast and as clearly as possible.”
A no bull goal I'd say.

Good work on the Times, I like to hear when people decide on things and then do it.

Hrant: " logography - the idea only failed because the compositor’s union sabotaged it. With logography Latin might have become something richer, since it’s an idea that naturally lends itself to ligation."
Thanks for not being there to change history. Besides, I think it might have failed for other reasons too but it sounds like another thread, just like another thread. ;)

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