All articles 4900

Hey all,

Having an intense conversation with a client on the legibility of thin slab serifs.
Currently looking for as many good (well-known) examples of brands that use them i their identity for several outcomes (print, UI,...)

For example:
Archer thin for Martha Stewart
Vogue Brazil hairline

Any you can think of would be a tremendous help!

Mike Cina reports on K10k that fellow type designer Joe Kral (of Test Pilot Collective) is suffering from ill health:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but K10k author and friend, Joe Kral is in the hospital from kidney failure. Both of his kidneys are in bad shape. His eyesight is very weak, but I am sure he would love to hear happy thoughts and prayers from you when he feels good enough to read. His email is kral [at]

Also, if you have a printing press and want to donate printing... I know there is talk about maybe putting together a "show" about designers without health insurance (he does not have health insurance) and other subject matter to help raise awareness of situations that happen to artists more often than you would like to know about. So if you don't have insurance, it would be a good time to think about that.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you are well & that Joe gets better ASAP.

Dreadful news! Let's all wish Joe a speedy recovery.

what a slacker only 99 posts? Hrant would be imbarased

I'm typesetting a friend's writing sample in philosophy, and I can't decide how to arrange and format the footnotes. (They must be footnotes, not endnotes.) I've attached an 8-page PDF. Each page is actually the same page of text but with the footnotes designed in a slightly different style. Here are the three main styles:

  1. Note number outdented; footnote text flush left with main text.

  2. Note number slightly indented, so that note text begins where indented paragraphs in main text begin.

  3. Note number indented, so that number appears where indented paragraphs in main text begin.

Each style comes in two versions: one with a 2-inch rule separating the text from the notes and one without. The first style also has two more variations: one with a period after the note number and one without. In all of them, the main text is Aldus 12/15 and the footnotes are Aldus 10/13.

I can't decide which of the three main styles I prefer. (An obvious fourth style would be to have the note numbers flush left with the main text.) The first is recommended by Bringhurst, but I don't think he has academic papers (with their sometimes long footnotes) in mind. I'm worried that the numbers standing outside of the margins draw too much attention to themselves.

Does anyone have any comments about or favorites among these different styles? Any suggestions for doing something different? (I know that the hyphenation needs work.)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


| Attachment | Size | | --- | --- | | Footnotes.pdf | 79.17 KB |

Sorry for the off-topic post. I think the term has something to do with typography, but I can't be sure as I don't understand it :)

It appears in this sentence about bad dictionary layout:

Vores egen erfaring er, at der findes ordbøger af høj kvalitet, som har et så uroligt læsebillede og en så lille skrift, at brugen er vanskeliggjort.

which comes from this paper:

I can see that it comes from "read" and "picture" but beyond that I can't make heads or tails of it. If anyone could explain what it means, I'd be much obliged.

For young font makers, who want to marry, and also for punch-cutters, who want to undertake the risky adventure of a marriage, I uploaded a hires scan of a beautiful large-scale Renaissance woodcut-flyleaf by Hans Sachs dated 1549 and cut in a Schwabacher blackletter typeface.

Top half of flyleaf: Woodcut with this heading:
"A useful advice to those apprentices who want to marry"

Bottom half of flyleaf: Poem with this heading:
"Advice concerning three types of marriage"

The three types of marriage for punch-cutters are these:
- Firstly, marriage of a young and beautiful, but poor maiden.
- Secondly, marriage of a rich widow, who was married once.
- Thirdly, marriage of a very rich widow, who was married twice.
Guess, which type of marriage is considered by Hans Sachs as least troublesome for font-makers and punch-cutters?

Someone writes: The barrier is not monetary. The barrier is that the org is fairly script-centric - there's pretty much no interest in it for other than Roman scripts and vice versa.

I think that ATypI is already less focused exclusively on the Latin script than it was when I first attended a conference in 1994. A long term change in the membership demographic would further diversify the focus of the association's interest. I would consider this a good thing.

It is also worth noting that the Latin script is the sole or major major writing system of an incredibly large number of countries around the globe, so being Latin-centric does not necessarily mean being Euro-centric or Anglo-centric.

Is there a term in English for this kind of setting often seen in historical books? Centered setting with decreasing line lengths to make a roughly triangular shape.
See attached example of a Dutch book from the middle of the 18th century; I know the Hipnerotomachia Poliphili has beautiful ones too.

I would very much appreciate the following paragraph to be translated to enable a clearer insight of Emilé Javal's finding on the relationship between type design (width?) and legibility...

This is for my MA thesis: Compact Typography:The design of typefaces conceived for small size applications.

Your help is greatly appreciated. I intend to post my specific findings on Javal and Dreyfuss's experiment here on Typophile.

Here is the text...

On voit que la longueur des lignes diminue en même temps que la hauteur des lettres, mais que la diminution de largeur est bien plus lente que celle en hauteur, parce que les graveurs ont reconnu, sans bien s’en rendre compte, que la diminution de lisibilité est attribuable principalement à la diminution de largeur des lettres. C’est là un fait capital que nous avons signalé depuis longtemps.


Michael Hernan

Good day all . . .

I'm about to buy one of the Palatino Nova packs from Linotype, to be used primarily for history/classics related papers. It will be a Garamond replacement, and hopefully good enough to replace the classical digital version of Palatino.

I must confess, however, that I have a fondness for the classic Palatino that we've had up until the Nova series. I understand it wasn't quite suitable for modern printing, but I grew up reading that style of Palatino (Linotron) and I've used the font quite happily. But if Palatino Nova is supposed to be what Zapf always intended, then so be it. It looks good and as a lover of Palatino I think I should be using it. And besides, I'm a sucker for beautiful, quality fonts.

I'm a bit confused, however, when it come to the weights.

Here, we've got Light and Medium:

Which is the book/Roman face? I've used Palatino Roman, so Im not sure if it resembles the Light variant or the Medium variant.

To add to the confusion, we have a Regular and Bold here:

I'd appreciate any help.


Hi there,

I'm not sure this is the right forum to ask, but never mind :D

I was wondering whether anyone could tell me what kind of presses the germans used during the war for their 'mobile printing presses' just behind the frontline?

Random question!



I was surprised to see Process Type Foundry's Locator Display on this box of Lucky Charms. I'm not sure whether it works or not, but I am sure I never would have thought of using it in this situation.

I've been offered some work with a system called Pageflex, made by Bitstream. Has anyone any experience with this package, or any like it? I'm giving it some thought and wondered if anyone here is uses it or any similar systems (e.g. Quark Server). I'm trying to weigh up whether this system is likely to be in demand or if it will simply vanish whenever Adobe decide to incorporate it into InDesign.

Also I'd also be interested to hear some opinions on how this kind of server technology impacts on font licencing. For example, a font is likely to only be installed on one computer but used by 100s of users to create documents via a web browser. In theory this will eventually lead to the end of large multi-user licences that companies must buy at the moment. Any idea how Bitstream licence their fonts for this?

By the way, for anyone who can't be bothered to read through Bitstream's rather dull webpage, Pageflex is a server based application whereby all layout files, images, EPSs and fonts are stored on the server and users are able to make low level changes themselves (edit text and images) via a web browser. It can be used for everything from mail merge type usage for letters and business cards at one end of the scale (which currently doesn't require multi-user licencing) to being used by whole marketing departments for the upkeep of corporate literature at the other (currently requiring a multi-user or site licence).

At the minute its looking like font companies are going to have to change from one-licence-per-CPU to one-licence-per-user licencing.

Any thoughts?

I've seen some discussion before on here about matching Futura with a complimentary body face that is not itself, but it never really answered the question. I don't like the look of Futura in lowercase for semi longer body copy.

I tried using some interesting pairings others have like IKEA with New Century Schoolbook, but my client doesn't have that earthy, warm feeling to use that. haha. The client is a commerical properties painter mostly. If that helps get ideas flowing.

I'm using Futura Medium and Bold(cliche) set in uppercase for titles.

What should i try for body? Sans serif suggestions are welcome as well. Maybe i shouldn't be so afraid of lowercase Futura, but it just irks me.

Thanks for the help in advance.

Does anyone know what the name of the font is?

The red Bull site is here if you need some reference

In Fontlab Studio, under OpenType Specific Names there's a third field called Mac Name. I usually leave it blank. When I hit Build Open Type Names it fills Mac Name with the contents of Full Name on the previous page.

If I enter "Bill Gates Rocks" in this field, where will it show up in an OTF or a Win TTF? Who will see it? Are there advantages to leaving it blank or not leaving it blank?

I have to generate a few hundred OpenType fonts and was wondering if I need to blank out that field a few hundred times or not.

Hello Everybody!
One of my friend recomended your site, he said it is a great site. I think it is great to have a cite dedicated to typogaraphy.
I am a student, doing a deegre in graphic design/illustration. At this moment i am working on my dissitation. I am writing about the changes in typography after 1950/60(postmodernism)
Also try to answer the question whether these changes in typography had any effect the relationship between graphic design(designers) and illustration(illustrators).
I would appritiate any sugestion related to the subject. Books, critics, websites and i am really interested on your oppinions or ideas which could help me with my essay.
Any information would be really helpfull.
Thank you. Looking forward to your replys

I just recently learned of Microsoft's Cambria+Math font. Having been long dissatisfied with the LaTeX standard packages and with the continued delay of STIX, I had high hopes for Cambria. That didn't last long. I am struck by the sloppiness of the design. For example, the lower-case roman alphabet looks like a mixture of two or three different typefaces. Strangely, the fonts I have (from the MS Office beta download) show differences from the sample PDF downloadable from the designer's web site.

What really bothers me, though, is that while Cambria+Math is clealy intended for producing documents with math in them, it does not take into account two problems that most fonts have when used to typeset math.

First, unlike writing in a natural language, glyphs can be adjoined arbitrarily. So the font must be designed such that no glyph intrudes into the columnar space of its neighbor or leaves gaping holes. A quick test is to diplay "QJqygf" in roman and italics. Also try the lower-case with sub/super-scripts.

Second, again unlike natural language, one often cannot identify a glyph just from context. So every glyph must be immediately and uniquely recognizable. Common problems are with the roman-lc vs. italic-lc "z" and with the Greek-ltalic-lc "nu" vs. the italic-lc "v".

I'd expect that most typographers are humanities types with little exposure to scientific literature. But I assure you that these issues do on occasion cause great vexation with typesetters and readers. For reference, fonts that I think handle these issues well are Caledonia, Palatino, and the Century family. Utopia is mostly OK.

Among type designers, is there ever discussion of the points I have raised?

The Call is out for presenters for SoTA's Type and Design Education Forum, part of the pre-conference offerings at TypeCon2008 in Buffalo. This year's forum will be held on Thursday, July 17. Last year's Ed. Forum was very well-received, and we expect this year's to be even better.

If any Typophilers here are involved in type education, consider sharing your experience with your colleagues. All the details and requirements for submitting proposals can be found at The deadline for submissions is February 15, 2008.

SoTA is also still accepting proposals for presentations to the main conference. The stated deadline is January 15, which is right around the corner. But rumor has it that this might be extended, so if you've been thinking about submitting an idea, don't let the deadline stop you. By the same token, don't put it off either -- Quick, get your idea together and get it in to the committee.

Details for these submissions can also be found at Just be sure to scroll down to the entry about general program submissions.

-- K.

There seems to be more on all forums. Typophile is choking on Spam.

Hey folks,

If you'd want to make any sort of educational material about type design, are you allowed to use a font (with a license) in it, and show values from the font, such as the spacing and kerning values? For example, you could set a word, draw lines to show the sidebearings, and write the spacing values from within the font underneath it, to show the distance from the glyph to its sidebearing. Might be a silly question, but I'm considering making a poster, so it seems wise to be sure :)

Jasper de Waard

I have been seeing MacSans/Bodega being used on everything! From the Oscars to food packaging to Wal-mart. Does anyone have any insight to it's over-use (or abuse) as of late?!? I literally cannot go a day without seing it on packages from the snack machine or used in tv ads. Please let me know if I am the only one who sees this or has some thoughts about why it has spread everywhere like a virus?

i think they're pooling from logo pond, but...

I'm a life long typefan and newly aspiring "font maker" and I was wondering if there were any good sources for online scans of "classic" font faces like Garamond or Caslon. I'm looking to teach myself at least the "mechanics" of font making by creating some nice digitizations of the old classics for release under an Open Source license (probably the LGPL but I haven't decided yet and probably won't until I have an actual preliminary release that someone might want to use and/or help build)

Ideally the samples should contain a complete set of numbers, letters and punctuation, but seeing as that's not the way they seem to have done things "back in the day", I'd be happy with links to almost anything.


a few years ago I read (heard? can't remember) that Hugo Steiner-Prag referred to the spine of the book as its face, since it's the part that you look at when it's placed on a shelf. Or something to that effect.
Now that I want to use it properly, I can't seem to find it.

Do the words ring any bell, anyone?